The Tel Aviv University/Stephen Roth Institute’s newly released study on anti-Semitism in 2009 is getting loads of media attention. Among the many outlets that have reported its findings are the AP, CNN, and Haaretz.
“Anti-Semitic incidents Doubled Last Year,” blared the AP headline.
Sponsored by the European Jewish Congress and produced with help from researchers around the world, including the Anti-Defamation League’s Aryeh Tuchman, the report’s release was timed to coincide with Holocaust Remembrance Day. The Roth Institute’s director, Dinah Porat, who also sits on the board at the Israeli Holocaust research center, Yad Vashem, declared at a recent press conference that anti-Semitism is directly linked to anti-Zionism. This is also the conclusion of her group’s report, which focuses on the alleged connection between anti-Semitic acts and Israel’s assault on Gaza in late 2008 and early 2009.
The Roth Institute identifies the UK and France as centers of anti-Semitism, but also centers in on American targets, including the widely praised Palestinian author Ali Abunimah and the Muslim students at UC-Irvine who heckled Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren.
Judge Richard Goldstone, a Jewish self-proclaimed Zionist, is also named among the Institute’s gallery of dangerous anti-Semites. “In November, extensive criticism of Israel in the media following the release of the Goldstone Report probably served as a trigger for another spike in hate crimes against Jews,” the report states. Since there is no evidence to back their claim up, the authors slipped in the word, “probably.”
Mainstream Muslim groups in the US like the Islamic Circle of North America could not escape being tagged as Jew haters either, though the report once again provides no concrete evidence to support its characterization. Thus readers must accept on faith — or the basis of their preconceptions about Muslims — that members of the ICNA like to “rail against Jews.”
The report accuses unidentified “contemporary youth” of exhibiting “rampant ignorance” by engaging in Palestinian solidarity activism. “An abundance of Muslim propaganda, well-financed by oil money, exploits this atmosphere, which law enforcement agencies refrain from countering out of ‘political correctness’ and respect for the right of freedom of speech,” the report’s authors write, suggesting that the First Amendment might be a threat to Jewish life in America.
The only actively organized anti-Semitic faction that the report’s researchers identify inside the US is the fringe-of-the-lunatic fringe Phelps family, which has picketed everything from soldiers’ funerals to the Sidwell Friends School, holding signs that take bigotry to the point of the sublime. The family’s satire of “We Are The World,” called “God Hates The World,” was so unintentionally funny it became a YouTube hit. Indeed, few outside the Phelps family take its bizarre street theater seriously. Despite the Roth Institute’s dire warnings, that is unlikely to change.
Organized anti-Semitism seemed to have been so absent from American life in 2009 that the Roth Institute felt compelled to lard its report with accounts of murders of non-Jews by right-wing extremists. For instance, the report goes on at length about Richard Poplawski, a deranged young skinhead who killed three cops in Pittsburgh reportedly because he hated Obama and thought he sent the police to take his guns away. Unless Obama had secretly converted to Judaism (wasn’t he supposed to be a crypto-Muslim?), the designation of Poplawski’s killing spree as an anti-Semitic attack is a wild stretch.
Turning its focus to Latin America, the Roth Institute predictably rehashes the widely repeated canard that Hugo Chavez’s Venezuela is a hotbed of anti-Semitism. And like the ADL and the Simon Wiesenthal Center, the Institute appears to have studiously avoided any contact with the Confederation of Jewish Associations of Venezuela, the country’s main Jewish umbrella organization. That may because the Confederation has already repudiated the notion of a Chavez-incited campaign of anti-Semitism and has condemned the Simon Wiesenthal Center for not consulting it about the reality of Jewish life in Venezuela.
Under pressure from Jewish groups in Venezuela, Jewish members of Congress torpedoed a 2009 House resolution to condemn Chavez for anti-Semitic incitement. The members of Congress who opposed the resolution included some of Israel’s most hardline allies in the House, from Rep. Gary Ackerman to Rep. Shelley Berkley. Apparently this news was not fit to print in the Roth Institute’s report.
The Institute’s characterization of Chavez’s government recalls a failed Cold War-era tactic, according to the North American Congress on Latin American. In 1983, as the Reagan administration sought to topple the Nicaraguan Sandinistas, the ADL churned out a poorly-sourced report accusing the Sandinistas of inciting hatred against the country’s small Jewish community. The report was immediately discredited by American rabbis who had actually traveled to Nicaragua and by Reagan’s own ambassador to the country; he declared, “the evidence fails to demonstrate that the Sandinistas have followed a policy of anti-Semitism or have persecuted Jews solely because of their religion.” As for the accusations leveled against Chavez, the authors of the Roth Institute report seemed most incensed by his furious opposition to Israel’s assault on Gaza.
While the threat of anti-Semitic attacks should not be dismissed, however random and rare they might be in Western society, the Roth Institute and its collaborators appear more interested in insulating Israel from scrutiny for its killing of 773 civilians in Gaza in 22 days than in generating education and dialogue to combat bigotry. Indeed, the main thrust of the report is consistent with one of the key objectives of the Netanyahu administration and its international supporters: to undermine the Goldstone Report and assail any public figures who support its findings. At the same time, the report appears crafted to prevent articulate Palestinian critics of Israeli policy like Ali Abunimah from gaining mainstream traction, speciously and scandalously conflating them with neo-Nazi street thugs and Holocaust deniers.
Three years before Israel’s creation, Jean Paul-Sartre analyzed what he saw as a widespread resentment of Jews, describing it as a pathology rooted in class envy and self-loathing. In his book, “Anti-Semite and Jew,” Sartre impelled Jews to assert themselves through militant means, stopping only once they had won their place in a pluralistic society like France. Among the means he proposed that Jews employ was the founding of “a Jewish league against anti-Semitism.”
Ironically, the Roth Institute’s Porat has rejected “the definitions of learned people” like Sartre. For her, anti-Semitism can be defined by simply describing the behavior of Israel’s critics, not by assessing the mentality of those who openly urge discrimination against Jews.
Following Porat’s line, the Roth Institute report asserted that Israel’s assault on Gaza was practically the only factor driving the supposedly dramatic spike in anti-Semitic incidents that occurred in 2009. “We have never seen such a sustained, organized campaign being waged against Israel’s legitimacy and its supporters around the world,” lamented Arie Zuckerman, whose European Jewish Congress contributed to the report.
But if Israel’s policies towards Gaza have fanned the flames of anti-Semitism, as the report seems to claim, the discussion must turn to whether Israel’s occupation of the Palestinians is threatening the safety of Jews across the world. Is there a linkage? The Roth Institute and its collaborators should consider contemplating the troubling issue they have inadvertently raised. Then again, it might be more convenient for them to dismiss it as another anti-Semitic canard contrived by “contemporary youth.”
You conveniently left out that most of the report consists of statistics kept by local European Jewish organizations on antisemitic attacks ranging from assaults to vandalism to verbal abuse.
The report references Ali Abunimah once in a longer section about the penchant of Arab writers to compare Israel to the Nazis and the Gaza War to the Holocaust. I think we can agree that such comparisons are inflammatory at the least and cause certain Europeans to attack Jews regardless of political persuasion.
The report does not call Goldstone an antisemite. It merely suggests that the COVERAGE of his report contributed to an already hostile atmosphere against Jews in Europe.
Antisemitism in Venezuela have been a growing problem and leftists, predictably, want to ignore. Chavez finds acceptance for comparing Israel to the Nazis on the left, and he is a repressive leader already, so why shouldn’t he target the Jewish community? After all, they have too much money, right?
So on the left, it’s OK.
Is Israel endangering Jews around the world? Who knows, and why should that matter? Do Saudi Arabians face increased discrimination for oppressing women and treating foreigners like third-class citizens? Do Chinese face increased discrimination for the way they treat Tibetans? Do British people face increased discrimination for Iraq? Is there any excuse ever for treating Jews differently based on what Israel does or does not do?
Nothing Israel does endangers Jews as much as the antisemites who actually engage in hatred and bigotry and the leftists who provide them political cover.
What concerns me most is the anti-Semitism being expressed by progressives. We are getting it from both sides.
The Christian Right is pro-Israel to be “rapture ready” (where we all die) which is often conflated as tolerance towards Jews in spite of the fact that we are all going to hell. Being gay and Jewish I am twice blessed.
Progressives think that our policy towards Israel has been hijacked by Jewish legislators. Look at any discussion thread on the Huff about Joe Lieberman and the anti-Semitism is rampant. Progressives also seem to promote a sympathetic view of the Palestinians that is completely ignorant of history and ignores that fact that Israeli society is not mono-dimensional on the issues.
BTW, I notice that David Duke – now Dr. David Duke (the PhD of unknown provinence) – is on an anti-Purim rant. http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DrOFLa-1a1lM
CriticalThinker, what do you make of Lieberman calling Pastor John Hagee’s followers “a multitude greater than those that followed Moses,” and his praise of Hagee as “a man of God — an Ish Elochim?”
I call it “idiotic.” Lieberman is a political pander bear. Correct me if I am wrong but, at the time, I think that Joe thought that he would be McCain’s running mate. He was behaving accordingly and simply cannot help himself.
Lieberman is on the right side of DADT and shares my religion. Nevertheless, I maintain that he is a putz.
Or Netanyahu telling Hagee, “The Jewish people salute you!” What about that?
Thank you for this intelligent analysis of a rather contradictory report.
“The Roth Institute’s director, Dinah Porat, who also sits on the board at the Israeli Holocaust research center, Yad Vashem, declared at a recent press conference that anti-Semitism is directly linked to anti-Zionism.”
Which is the truth; if anti-zionism wasn’t anti-semitic anti-zionists wouldn’t claim that the ‘Israel lobby’ controls the US, they wouldn’t claim that Zionism is racism (a lie designed to deny the Jews the right to identify, understand and imagine themselves as a nation), they wouldn’t claim that Israel is comparable to nazi Germany, I could go on but it’s a very long list.
“At the same time, the report appears crafted to prevent articulate Palestinian critics of Israeli policy like Ali Abunimah from gaining mainstream traction, speciously and scandalously conflating them with neo-Nazi street thugs and Holocaust deniers.”
Abunimah is the founder of the hate site “electronic intifada” and he’s author of anti-Albanian article that denies atrocities committed by Serb forces; Ali claims that Serb atrocities were exagerrated (he doesn’t provide anything to back up that vile opinion). For a site that delights in comparing Israel to nazi Germany they don’t see anything wrong in supporting genocidial maniacs who modelled themselves after the pro-nazi chetniks and denying mass murder using methods lifted from holocaust deniers. The article goes onto spew the Serb myth that Kosovo was part of Serbia but unfairly partitioned, Ali ignores the fact that Kosovo has an Albanian majority who support the so-called ‘partition’, that it was a unit of Yugoslavia (not Serbia) complete with it’s iown parliament and government, and was directly represented at the federal level, alongside Serbia.
Ali complains about what he sees as an Israeli “ethnocracy” but doesn’t have a problem with the ethno supremacist dream of greater serbia. He whines 24/7 about ‘palestinian’ self determination; a right that he believes that Kosovar Albanians are not entitled to. You can read the article here:
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article9328.shtml
It’s one of the many examples that show that the electronic intifada is a hate site.
Also the Christian right isn’t truly pro-Israel; they use that as a cover for proselytizing.
I don;t understand why it is impossible to criticize Israel without being labelled as antisemitic. I know a lot of people who are jewish in which i admire greatly. My family physician, my buddy sheldon, Jon Stewart, Max Blumenthal and many more(Only defense to being called antisemitic).
However every time i criticize Israel, a state who;s actions i find atrocious. It doesn’t matter what the criticizm is; the anti semite card is played. in fact it is played so much that i really do not know if i had offended anyone or it is just the standard response. By using this card so often a tragic part of history is being normalized, and will soon be joined with comparisons to Hitler or the Nazies.
To hopfmy You seemed to have failed the analogy party of the SAT’s. Actions by the British government sometimes beings feelings of hate towards British people and actionsof the Israeli government would bring hatred towards Israeli’s not Jews. Israel is a Zionist Homeland not a Jewish homeland.
Correction, i don;t really “know” Max, but I like and respect his work, and his strength of Character.
For another view on antisemitism in Venezuela, see here:
http://blog.z-word.com/2008/01/chavez/
Hophmi, critical thinker, and doc savage all perfectly illustrate the point here – if you dare to disagree with or criticize Israel’s policies, you’re anti-semitic! What a wonderfully simplistic view of life – if anyone disagrees with me, they hate me and my people, and therefore their arguments don’t even have to be considered! And God forbid anyone should notice that almost any politician in America is terrified of questioning America’s blind support of Israel. That couldn’t possibly be because there IS a very strong pro-Israel lobby that’s continually poised to accuse one and all of anti-semitism at the slightest hint of criticism.
It’s very ugly, and most of all, it’s self-fulfilling. When you’ve seen enough of these blind, hateful, stubborn responses, it’s difficult not to lower your opinion of these people.
“if you dare to disagree with or criticize Israel’s policies, you’re anti-semitic!”
That game isn’t going to work. I didn’t call anyone antisemitic for criticizing Israel. Nothing about my response is hateful.
I took issue with Max’s interpretation of the study. That does not give you the right to accuse me of accusing others of antisemitism. It seems like one cannot debate criticism of Israel without being accused of accusing others of antisemitism. Perhaps someone here has a guilty conscience.
You’re right, hophmi, you didn’t directly accuse anyone of being anti-semitic. But you ask if there’s ever an excuse for treating jews differently based on what Israel does or doesn’t do. I mean, I don’t know exactly how to put it, but aren’t you likely to treat a known murderer or thief differently? I’m not saying to hate them or hurt them, but wouldn’t that knowledge of someone change how you think about them in some way? And yes, I absolutely am saying that Israel has stolen from and murdered, check the history of the founding of Israel. In that same respect, when I realize how many jews in America are absolutely committed to defending whatever Israel does, no matter how wrong, or how much harm it causes in the world, when they attack anyone who disagrees, and do their best to stifle any notion that Israel does wrong, and fight the idea that America needs to demand some change for our 5.5 billion dollars a year, then yes, it does affect how I look at those people. When I see videos of New York jewish residents CELEBRATING in the streets over the massacre of Palestinians, or videos of Israeli jewish citizens talking about Palestinians like they were trash to be disposed of, then yes, it does affect how I view those people. My goal is definitely not to become hateful over this, but there is a reaction. And any efforts to make the issue about anti – semitism instead of about Israel’s deeds, is only a way of trying to cloud the issue, and continue the bad behavior. THE ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT HATING JEWS – IT’S ABOUT THE WRONG THAT ISRAEL HAS DONE TO THESE PEOPLE SINCE IT’S INCEPTION, AND THE REFUSAL OF MANY JEWS TO EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THAT WRONG WAS AND IS BEING DONE. AND YES, IF YOU KEEP TRYING TO MASK THE REAL ISSUE WITH CONCERN ABOUT ANTI-SEMITISM , THAT IS HATEFUL. And I’d feel the same way about Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, or anyone who has treated people the way Israel has. IT’S NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THEY’RE JEWISH.
@wlonw:
Check the founding of America. Do you treat Americans differently and call for the restoration of their country to the Native Americans? I can assure you, America did much more murdering and stealing to get their country than Israel ever did.
How about Europeans? Do you treat Europeans differently? Most of their countries plundered third world states for no other reason than money (though they claimed to be spreading Christianity) and most do not support financial restoration to those states for the harms they caused.
How about Russians? Most Russians support Russian policy in Chechnya, where many more people have died than in the territories. Do you treat them differently?
Lots of Serbians supported what Milosevic did in Bosnia and Kosovo, where, again, many, many more people were killed than in the Israel-Palestine conflict. Do you treat them differently?
None of these places face any of the threats that Israel does.
New York Jewish residents are not in the streets celebrating massacres of Palestinians. That Max Blumenthal went to a rally to oppose Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s presence at the UN and found a few people who said some crazy things is not “celebrating massacres of Palestinians in the streets.” Not only are these people not representative of people at the rally, they are not representative of American Jews.
And by the way, do you treat Muslims who fail to issue unequivocal condemnations of suicide bombings differently?
The answer is that you apply a double standard, probably because the Israeli-Palestinian conflict gets much more press than it deserves, and that even though you claim that you’d feel the same way if it were someone else, you don’t. That means you’re acting in a prejudiced way, even if you don’t realize it. You’re a product of institutional discrimination against my people. You need to break out of your orthodoxy.
My people have the perspective of experiencing ethnic cleansing after ethnic cleansing, massacre after massacre, at the hands of people who tried to convert us to Christianity. People who only very recently developed secular states for themselves, states which are more homogenous than Israel is. And even today, a number of these states are discriminating against their Muslim minorities. These people tell US we have no right to a state of our own while discriminating against their Muslim populations and making no real apology for Christian sins of the past. I don’t have much regard for such hypocrisy.
I’ve heard this same response many times, including from friends. What you’re saying is a third graders response – they did it! Why can’t I? It’s not fair! Ever heard “two wrongs don’t make a right”? You’re arguing for the right to do evil based on the fact that others have done evil. Sorry, it doesn’t fly – see, I’m in a conversation for actually improving human behavior, and that involves stopping bad behavior and acknowledging the past truthfully, so we can move on. And you seem to be in a conversation for defending bad behavior so it can continue. And if America was at odds with the native american population as it once was, you can bet I’d be speaking up about it.
Sincerely, I say to you that for me and many others, this is not about singling out Israel or Jews. The fact is that we’re involved in a horrible war with much of the mid east, and one of the big causes of Islamic hatred and distrust of the U.S. is our continued almost blind support of Israel’s policies. It shows them continually that we don’t respect them as humans, and that their lives mean nothing to us. It’s a huge sore thumb in the midst of all the other ways we’ve hurt them. The single most powerful thing we could do to promote peace and start to whittle away at terrorism and the feelings that it springs from, is to get Israel to stand up and acknowledge their wrongdoing, and get really serious about making things right – giving up some land, committing to a new way of treating Palestinians and the non-jewish population of Israel. And without that, this stuff will go on and on and on, and how long will it be before someone detonates a nuclear device on American soil? And I know you’ll hate hearing this, but truly, if we hadn’t been supporting Israel all this time, who knows, maybe 9/11 would never have happened. People kill people in resonse to harsh, brutal treatment.
Somehow we have to become better people. And yes, stuff is happening all over the world, but we are funding Israel to the tune of about 5.5 billion a year all told, and that’s why we have the right to push Israel on this, and if they absolutely refuse, then we have to cut them off, completely. As far as I know, we’re not in this situation in other parts of the world, not to this extent. So it’s not singling out Israel, it’s a response to a dire, very real stuation.
I realize that for many jews, Israel has become tied in with their very identity, and any criticism of it feels like a criticism of jews in general. And the history of what the Roman Catholic church perpetrated against jews for centuries gets mixed in there for good measure. And I can see that many jews think that if Israel gives an inch, it will mean it’s destruction. However, out here, outside of the historic jewish conversation, we can see that these things are not true. Making peace, giving up some things, etc. will not mean the end of Israel. Criticism of Israel is not an anti-semitic strike against all jews. I would love to know that Israeli families never again have to worry about a bomb killing their children. But it won’t happen if minds don’t change. And refusing to look at the real issues, claiming anti-semitism is the real problem, doesn’t help.
Just to add a really personal note – I happen to live two buildings away from a Jewish Temple. I walk past there all the time. I see the kids playing outside in some day care program. I smile and often experience that feeling of open heart, dare I say love, when I see these kids. I bear no malice whatsoever towards them because they’re jewish. I used to live doors away from a Haabad (hope that’s the right spelling) on a college campus. They had a little cafe with the best falafel and baba ganoush I’ve ever had, and I went in there a lot. And yes, I find the whole black suit, curly side burns, thing a bit weird, but I never felt any hatred for the people there, not in the least. And I once had a jewish girlfriend, and have had quite a few jewish friends over the years. And I’ve always thought skinhead jew haters were morons.
My problem with many jewish people began about a year ago, when I finally did research about the founding of Israel, and began finding out how many jews in America have that” Israel is always right, and Arabs are dogs who deserve to die” kind of attitude, and finding out how much political power these people have here in America, keeping us locked into our unwavering support of Israel. And as I said before, this puts us into a bad and dangerous situation. And my feelings are based on people’s actions and attitudes, not pre-concieved prejudice.
“I’ve heard this same response many times, including from friends. What you’re saying is a third graders response – they did it! Why can’t I? It’s not fair! Ever heard “two wrongs don’t make a right”? You’re arguing for the right to do evil based on the fact that others have done evil.”
Well, no, not really. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy of your position and the selectivity of it. In fact, Israel’s founding is not comparable to these other countries; Jews are indigenous to the region, Israel did not engage in mass murder, and the country granted the franchise to its minorities from the beginning.
“And if America was at odds with the native american population as it once was, you can bet I’d be speaking up about it.”
Hahaha. America successfully destroyed the native american population. There’s no “at odds” to have anymore. It’s responses like this that doubtless caused Benny Morris to remark that Ben-Gurion should have finished the job and thrown the Palestinians out, because if he had, people would not be criticizing Israel today.
“Sincerely, I say to you that for me and many others, this is not about singling out Israel or Jews.”
Sincerely, I say to you, that’s what happening whether you admit it or not.
“The fact is that we’re involved in a horrible war with much of the mid east”
We are?
“and one of the big causes of Islamic hatred and distrust of the U.S. is our continued almost blind support of Israel’s policies.”
OK. But do you really think that the day the US stops supporting Israel, the Islamic world is suddenly going to love us?
“And I know you’ll hate hearing this, but truly, if we hadn’t been supporting Israel all this time, who knows, maybe 9/11 would never have happened.”
And who knows, maybe one day the sky will be made out of cotton candy and we’ll all live underground. Makes about as much sense as the above comment.
“we are funding Israel to the tune of about 5.5 billion a year all told, and that’s why we have the right to push Israel on this”
Is that it? Israel’s a first world country. Do you think that 5.5 billion is what this is all about? Do you favor taking a hard line with the Egyptians, who really give us nothing for our money?
“My problem with many jewish people began about a year ago, when I finally did research about the founding of Israel, and began finding out how many jews in America have that” Israel is always right, and Arabs are dogs who deserve to die” kind of attitude, and finding out how much political power these people have here in America, keeping us locked into our unwavering support of Israel. And as I said before, this puts us into a bad and dangerous situation. And my feelings are based on people’s actions and attitudes, not pre-concieved prejudice.”
So read something that is not written from a pro-Palestinian POV, and you’ll stop having these bigoted views.
I don’t know any Jews outside of the fringe who believe Arabs are dogs who deserve to die. I think you’ve been reading too many polemical websites.
Max,
I admire your writing, especially Republican Gomorrah. But I’m doubtful about what you say about the lack of antisemitism by Chavez in Venezuela. I found the following article in Boston Review, which is a great, liberal, very well sourced journal frightening and convincing:
http://bostonreview.net/BR34.4/lomnitz_sanchez.php
Could you look at this article and comment?
Thanks
Tom
hophmi, I give up, you’re right, anyone who thinks Israel and it’s asolute supporters should take responsibility for their actions is just anti-semitic, of course. Israel hasn’t caused any probems by stealing land, slaughtering villages, throwing people out of their homes and farms. That’s just normal, moral behavior – after all, Ghengis Kahn did it! And after all, Jews are special people, and ordinary morality doesn’t apply to them. How dare those Arabs fight back! And of course the whole world is bigoted and anyone who doesn’t see that is just deluded. For a good laugh, you should check out Tikkun.com and see what Michael Lerner has to say. He’s jewish, and has many jews who support his goals, but of course I’m sure you know he must be a delusional, self-hating jew, right? The problem is, see, that he and others like him express more impact and spiritual quality and basic humanity in one paragraph than you ever will in your entire life of denial and excuses and defense of wrong doing. If you could get for just one minute that the world is not trying to destroy your people, and that by far the majority of people just want Israel to do what it takes to change things for the better and make peace, so this ongoing debacle can end, it would open your heart and change your life forever. But I’m just a delusional jew hater, so what do I know, right? Just keep telling yourself that.
“hophmi, I give up, you’re right, anyone who thinks Israel and it’s asolute supporters should take responsibility for their actions is just anti-semitic, of course”
You said it, not me. Is anyone who criticizes those who criticize Israel automatically making an accusation of antisemitism. It sure seems that way; I guess you guys thrive on making yourselves the victims.
“Israel hasn’t caused any probems by stealing land, slaughtering villages, throwing people out of their homes and farms.”
Well, a lot less than the Americans did to the Native Americans.
“And after all, Jews are special people, and ordinary morality doesn’t apply to them.”
No one said that. If only we were treated like everyone else. If Europe held us to the same standard they have historically held themselves, they would not dare criticize us. But we’re not.
“How dare those Arabs fight back! And of course the whole world is bigoted and anyone who doesn’t see that is just deluded.”
Well, again, I think a lot of the world is hypocritical. There are nearly five dozen Muslim states and almost the same number of states which have large, wealthy, Christian majorities built up through years of ethnic cleansing and plundering of the third world. I’m not saying people are consciously bigoted, but covert, institutional bigotry is an invidious thing, and there is no question in my mind that there is a lot of it amongst those who are obsessed with Israel in a world where there are just so many other, worse miseries.
“For a good laugh, you should check out Tikkun.com and see what Michael Lerner has to say. He’s jewish, and has many jews who support his goals, but of course I’m sure you know he must be a delusional, self-hating jew, right?”
Well, I’ve met Michael Lerner and I’ve seen him speak. I don’t think he’s a self-hating Jew. I think he’s a leftist and that his Jewishness is incidental to his political beliefs. And yes, he has a number of supporters. But most Jews don’t support him, just like most Palestinians don’t support Khaled Abu Toameh.
“The problem is, see, that he and others like him express more impact and spiritual quality and basic humanity in one paragraph than you ever will in your entire life of denial and excuses and defense of wrong doing.”
Uh-huh. He oozes New Age spirituality, that’s for sure. How does one express impact?
“If you could get for just one minute that the world is not trying to destroy your people, and that by far the majority of people just want Israel to do what it takes to change things for the better and make peace, so this ongoing debacle can end, it would open your heart and change your life forever.”
I never said the world is trying to destroy my people. I’d appreciate your not putting words in my mouth. My view, and really Zionism’s view, is that Jews simply cannot rely on “the world” for safety and security. There’s just no reason for us to do that given our history. Most of the world really does not have our best interests at heart. They have their own interests at heart. No one’s coming to destroy us (these days anyway), but no one is coming to save us either. That’s why there’s an Israel, and that’s why Israel brings us a security that most of you simply don’t understand.
I don’t think you’re much interested in actually addressing what I say, so much as going on the defensive about phantom accusations of bigotry which you think all supporters of Israel make.
hopmi, ?
you said ”None of these places face any of the threats that Israel does.”, exactly, so then your argument doesnt hold when you compare israel to the west every time an israeli spokesperson likes to mention it. and what threats are you talking about? what israel has on its plate is a dysfunctional policy towards arabs and specifically, palestinians. theres no justification and even the likud realize it. the amazing aspect of israeli politics is that the likud is looking more like a center right party thanks to those nuts on the extreme right.
as far as the report goes, it doesnt need a genius to figure out that if you dont like israel’s policies, then you’re labled an anti-semite. its happened to me several times, and its really annoying, for so many reasons i cant be bothered to list them.
you said, ”My view, and really Zionism’s view, is that Jews simply cannot rely on “the world” for safety and security.”
you’re right, which means you dont need any more handouts being forced out of people or countries because of your efforts to guilt them into it.
and dont forget, you reap what you sow. the west, that you and your ilk so much like to compare israel to cant stand you or israel’s policies. even the (now) peaceful japanese dont have a favorable view of israelis.
clik on the link for consumption and the begining of some soul searching:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/160410bbcwspoll.pdf
one more thing, lets take a look at who america’s allies in the middle east really are:
US exports to the Arab World rebound to US$75 billion
http://www.bi-me.com/main.php?id=46103&t=1&c=132&cg=3&mset=1021
accroding to aipac’s own release, american exports to israel in 2007 was valued at $13 bln. lets say in 2010 its somewhere around $25 bln.
http://www.aipac.org/Publications/AIPACAnalysesMemos/Trade.pdf
the fact that america has to subsidise (americans pay for) israel’s existence, tells people that arabs as not as bad as the ignorant right like to spit out. that arabs are actually buying american products, meaning more job security for americans. the amazing detail in the above release is that its only 5 arab countries. imagine the amount of business american companies can make if all arab countries were fully traded with. and the uae doesnt even have an fta like israel does with the u.s.
how can any pro-israeli spin the numbers to show any tangeable u.s benefit when dealing with israel’s apartheid policy? any loss in business (military or non-military) can be easily compensated by any of these oil rich arabs and even the crackpot dictators who spend heavily on defence.
in business terms, the arabs are the american’s best customer in the region. hence, america’s real allies in the middle east.
you said ”None of these places face any of the threats that Israel does.”, exactly, so then your argument doesnt hold when you compare israel to the west every time an israeli spokesperson likes to mention it. and what threats are you talking about? what israel has on its plate is a dysfunctional policy towards arabs and specifically, palestinians. theres no justification and even the likud realize it. the amazing aspect of israeli politics is that the likud is looking more like a center right party thanks to those nuts on the extreme right.
“as far as the report goes, it doesnt need a genius to figure out that if you dont like israel’s policies, then you’re labled an anti-semite. its happened to me several times, and its really annoying, for so many reasons i cant be bothered to list them.”
And when I criticize the Palestinians, I’m called either Islamophobic or anti-Arab or racist. But at this point, I’d say that this claim that all critics of Israel are labeled antisemitic is being overused. Every community with a history of persecution, and even those without one, will have a contingent of people who react to criticism this way.
you said, ”My view, and really Zionism’s view, is that Jews simply cannot rely on “the world” for safety and security.”
“you’re right, which means you dont need any more handouts being forced out of people or countries because of your efforts to guilt them into it.”
Israel doesn’t get handouts. They get loans. Palestinians get handouts, more than any other refugee population on Earth.
“and dont forget, you reap what you sow. the west, that you and your ilk so much like to compare israel to cant stand you or israel’s policies. even the (now) peaceful japanese dont have a favorable view of israelis.”
I don’t like to compare Israel to the West. It’s unfair to Israel, whose historical record far exceeds the West. Where were most European countries after 63 years of existence?
“clik on the link for consumption and the begining of some soul searching:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/160410bbcwspoll.pdf”
Polls that reflect what people watch on TV don’t really matter. A poll where favorable views of China exceed those of India and approach those of the US is not one I take seriously.
“the fact that america has to subsidise (americans pay for) israel’s existence, tells people that arabs as not as bad as the ignorant right like to spit out. that arabs are actually buying american products, meaning more job security for americans. the amazing detail in the above release is that its only 5 arab countries. imagine the amount of business american companies can make if all arab countries were fully traded with. and the uae doesnt even have an fta like israel does with the u.s.”
Huh? Arabs buy American products and Israelis buy American products. How that equals subsidization of Israel I have no idea. Israel is one country of a few million people. There are 300 million Arabs in 22 countries.
“how can any pro-israeli spin the numbers to show any tangeable u.s benefit when dealing with israel’s apartheid policy? any loss in business (military or non-military) can be easily compensated by any of these oil rich arabs and even the crackpot dictators who spend heavily on defence.”
Yeah. How much money does the US spend to protect Saudi Arabia from its enemies in the Gulf? How much money has Iraq cost the US? How much money do Americans have to pay every time OPEC jacks up oil prices?
Israel’s got the most innovative high-tech industry in the world. It is a real economy, not an oil-based dictatorship that could fall tomorrow.
“in business terms, the arabs are the american’s best customer in the region. hence, america’s real allies in the middle east.”
Yes, they export wonderful products like Wahhabism and terrorism and bash America at every opportunity. I agree. They’re great allies.
hophmi, i’m through discussing these things with you. its clear from your posts and my brief interaction with you from before that you’re stuck in your ways and cant be reasoned with. not because you’re not bright, but because you choose not to see the other side. whereas i dont filter in anything anyone tells me and then spin it back out with my own spin, you clearly have.
i’ve provided in the most simplest manner the economic benefits between trading with israel and trading with the arabs. and you’ve provided the weakest counters to them.
just to close it up and once again my final post directed at you:
‘Yeah. How much money does the US spend to protect Saudi Arabia from its enemies in the Gulf? How much money has Iraq cost the US? How much money do Americans have to pay every time OPEC jacks up oil prices?’
Not alot actually, the u.s. have closed their bases in saudi as it was clear it was proving to be counterproductive to american policy in the middle east. as for iraq, it was a unilateral american decision, more than likely heavily encouraged by israel behind closed doors. and as far as i know, when opec ‘jacks’ up oil prices (which they dont, market speculators do), american oil companies benefit along with ever other american company directly or indirectly affiliated with the oil industry.
the ‘oil-based dictatorships that could fall tomorrow’ would have fallen yesterday. so that doesnt hold either.
if you dont understand how america ‘loans’ out money to israel is less benefical to the u.s. than actually trading without loans then thats not my problem. and you said it yourself, the palesitinians do get handouts because they are ‘refugees’ as you agreed to. refugees because of israeli policy.
and no, you wouldnt be called and islamophobe if you critisized arabs, for the obvious reason that not all arabs are muslims. maybe if you knew a bit more about the region, you would realize that arabs have a plethora of religions associated with them, including judiaism.
“hophmi, i’m through discussing these things with you. its clear from your posts and my brief interaction with you from before that you’re stuck in your ways and cant be reasoned with. not because you’re not bright, but because you choose not to see the other side. whereas i dont filter in anything anyone tells me and then spin it back out with my own spin, you clearly have.”
I’m sorry, but I don’t buy this. I’m not speaking on anyone’s behalf.
“i’ve provided in the most simplest manner the economic benefits between trading with israel and trading with the arabs. and you’ve provided the weakest counters to them.”
And I’ve explained to you that your argument doesn’t make sense because supporting Israel is not inhibiting American economic relations with the Arab world. Nor is it amounting to “subsidization” of Israel. You made that claim, and you didn’t support it, what I could see.
“Not alot actually, the u.s. have closed their bases in saudi as it was clear it was proving to be counterproductive to american policy in the middle east. as for iraq, it was a unilateral american decision, more than likely heavily encouraged by israel behind closed doors. and as far as i know, when opec ‘jacks’ up oil prices (which they dont, market speculators do), american oil companies benefit along with ever other american company directly or indirectly affiliated with the oil industry.”
I think it’s unlikely Israel offered that much encouragement, since Israel’s main enemy in the region is Iran.
Regardless, your economic argument is simplistic and does not hold up. Look at it another way; how much business could the Arab world do with Israel if it stopped boycotting the country, which they’ve done since before the occupation?
“if you dont understand how america ‘loans’ out money to israel is less benefical to the u.s. than actually trading without loans then thats not my problem. and you said it yourself, the palesitinians do get handouts because they are ‘refugees’ as you agreed to. refugees because of israeli policy.”
Most of the money the US loans to Israel comes right back to American companies.
As I said before, advocates the Palestinian cause are hardly in a position to complain about handouts to other countries or the particularity of someone else’s situation. Palestinians are the only people who pass down refugee status from father to son.
“and no, you wouldnt be called and islamophobe if you critisized arabs, for the obvious reason that not all arabs are muslims. maybe if you knew a bit more about the region, you would realize that arabs have a plethora of religions associated with them, including judiaism.”
Yes, yes, I’m well aware that Arabs are not all Muslim and that not every Muslim in the Middle East is an Arab. But I have faced these kind of attacks anyway, and let’s be honest, the overwhelming majority of Arabs are Muslims. My point is that someone will always cry bigotry when someone offers constructive criticism of their people.
If Jews are Arabs, I’m sure the Arab countries won’t mind compensating for the expulsions and property confiscations of the 1940s and 1950s.
I merely try to present the case for why criticism is either unfair or hypocritical, and I do suggest on occasion that some of the hysteria that accompanies that criticism betrays a deeper institutional problem. But I shy away from outward accusations of antisemitism and should not be accused of making such accusations.
You can read the link below (first page of google results) to see why this report was complaining about the ICNA convention. Max Blumenthal also could have done this.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jan/12/jewish-group-rips-islamic-summit-as-anti-semitic/
The ADL said the conference provided cover for anti-Semitic rants. It said that Rafiq Jaber, former president of the Islamic Association of Palestine, described Jews to the audience as “the worst kind of people,” who came to Jerusalem “with false pretenses.”
The ADL cited Hamed Ghazali, chairman of the MAS Council of Islamic Schools and professor at the Islamic American University in Michigan, as telling the audience in Arabic that “Allah gave us the Jews” as the primary historical and religious example of those who “take the wrong path.”
BTW the report has a paragraph about the Phelps family. It’s not true that they’re the “only actively organized anti-Semitic faction that the report’s researchers identify inside the US,” the report also talks about white supremacists, the Nation of Islam, etc.
[...] precisely because they love their country. And the notion that any criticism of Israel is de facto proof of intent to de-legitimize Israel, anti-Israel sentiment or anti-Semitism, is a undemocratic tactic being used to silence debate on [...]
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